Cali or Marco Polo? My decision process

[Roy C]

I am replicating below a post I made on the VW California Owners Club forum when I was first considering a campervan and this MP forum did not exist. I do reference the thread on the other forum that was started when the MP emerged as an alternative option to the Cali in the UK so I hope this doesn't confuse matters but my intent is to help anyone who is considering either vehicle.

"Last week I had pretty much decided to go for a new California Ocean and place an order but this thread tipped me off to the Marco Polo as a possible alternative. Since there is a MB dealership 15 minutes from me I made an appointment and had a good look around one yesterday to make a final decision.

Before I go any further I'll explain what my needs are because it really seemed to me reading the other posts that either car is great but a lot of opinion on which is "better" depended on how it was to be used. For me most of my use will be as a daily driver but my wife and I love the idea of the odd weekend away (as a family of three and a small dog), maybe a family week away In Easter and half-term holidays, one or two trips for me and my oldest (not at home so not counted as part of the family of three) to a Grand Prix weekend and one or two trips to a festival weekend. The family trips would be campsites with hook ups and showers - no wild camping.

So my impressions of the pros and cons of the MBMP versus the Ocean based on what we need:

Pros:
- I really liked the high quality interior. We saw one with black leather so less bling than the cream but the interior still seemed light because of the light floor and light canvas in the pop-up roof. Since I'll be driving around in it a lot I liked the upmarket car feel of the dash etc. I don't think it is any less practical than the Ocean - wipe clean seats, good quality materials to the units etc. That would only proven over time though.
- Rear seats were really comfy and thought it would be more comfortable in the evenings to be able to recline them a little
- Roof bed has a couple of handy swan neck led lights and a nice shelf and usb port.
- Lots of premium / luxury car extras included in the price which I'm a sucker for
- No handbrake to avoid when swivelling the chairs and instead of the weird foot parking brake I remember from older Mercs there was a standard switched electronic affair
- MB dealership (JCT600 Harrogate) is very close and responded quickly to my enquiry. When trying to find a VW Van Centre to order from I phoned York who said they didn't really do Californias any more and I should call Sheffield or Hull. I called West Yorkshire instead and left a message but they never got back to me. Finally I contacted Guy in Preston based on good feedback from the forums here and he did call me back but he explained going over on a weekend is not really an option because they have a token staff on on Saturday mornings so if I wanted a test drive I'd have to come over in the week.

Cons:
- everything was electrically operated; door, tailgate, seat recline and side bolster deflation to make it flat and I'd be a little worred about running down the battery if they're off the main one rather than the leisure battery
- the storage for the chairs is not very space efficient, slung into a bag with lots of free space, although I thought the table was okay since it fitted close to the underside of the rear shelf. Would probably ditch the chairs and get more compact ones but table was fine
- At 5.1m long it might give me a few parking worries
- The floor looks like wood but is that upmarket lino with a wood effect - not really my taste but a plainer floor can be specced, I believe.
- No 4WD option
- the auxilliary heater is really costly at £2.5k

The conclusion we have reached as a family is that we'll be giving the Marco Polo a go instead of the VW based on our relatively soft needs but I think if we were looking at more hardcore use - getting further off the beaten track, going without hook ups etc. - then I might be more inclined to the California.".

 

[Nick Pye]

Some great points, well made. We too looked at the California Ocean and whilst the dealer (commercial sales) was pleasant enough, she didn't really know the answers to my questions without reference to a colleague, didn't take any contact details, didn't offer a test drive and never followed up. We were there approximately 30 minutes.

We walked over to the Mercedes dealership (car sales) where the whole experience was way more professional. The dealer didn't know much about the van either but was far more engaging. He gave us a test drive, took our details and worked hard to make us happy and secure a deal. We spent the best part of 3 hours with him, finally coming away with a deal for a pre-loved (1000 miles) Marco Polo 250D Sport in Cavansite Blue. There was no awning fitted so he agreed to fit one.

We initially thought that a VW would be perfect for us but the looks, apparent comfort, perceived quality of Mercedes and salesmanship shone through. The proof of the pudding ... and all that. I'll be back once I have the van to update.

 

[terry1956]

I think you have hit the nail on the head Roy. for me and I am still not buying yet. the path way went along the lines of. first vw California and then MP. my reasons for heading towards the MP are as follows. lots of known issues with the VW vans, suspension coils snapping, the twin turbo engines blowing up after 60,000 miles, DPF filter faults and not a true automatic gearbox. The vw also as very short serving intervals at 10 months between services and the engine as a cam belt and not chain drive like the MP so more big bills along the line. also the fact that VW dealers are not that good at servicing the vans when they go wrong.
the downside of the MP is its size, you cant get it into a normal parking space so it will always be a sort of 2nd car. I am not put off by the suitcase of chairs as I will use better roll up items.
I have just returned from france and on the crossing there must of been 6 Vw campervans, but on the France roads I saw a number of MP,s on Germany and French plates and spoke to a few owners who had camped out in the supermarket car parks. all very happy with their vans which they had owned for around 3 to 4 years.
I am looking to use mainly outside the UK for long trips fly fishing and touring the old battlefields and so on. I just can,t see me in a VW as I love new tech and the MP is by far the better drive. I do however think it time that the command system used by MB stopped relaying on the owners phone to work and then only if you have the correct phone and that it had a build in sim card like my BMW which is a far better system. My idea of just using hotels for my trips as fallen flat. poor food and then returning to a very upset ball dog as lead me to look at purchasing a 250 MP over the new year.

 

[anyideas]

We previously had a T5 Camper conversion so when looking to upgrade the Cali should have been the logical choice. In truth the decision to get the MP instead wasn't even a hard one.

The MP is IMO better in pretty much every way for our needs. Ours is not going to be a daily driver so its not required to make a run to the tip after returning from a weekend away, nor is it likely to see an Ikea carpark to pick up a sofa so the hard plastics and commercial grade flooring of a Cali didn't appeal to us.

If I am going to be driving for 5-6 hours to reach a destination I don't want the drive to be an "event" I want the drive to leave me fresh and not like I have just driven a van for over 300miles.

Leather seats as standard (not even an option on the cali) was again a massive plus, with a young child and dog I find leather seats easier to clean. If cloth were the more maintenance free option why do so many cali owners have seat covers?

So many of the smaller things are just done that little bit better

Kitchen drawers instead of sliding doors which allow easier access to the rear of the units
split worktop (now also on the MY18 Cali, along with the option of wood effect flooring clearly VW are watching)
handbrake position
gear lever on steering column
LED lights as standard
Top bed looks to be better engineered then the wooden slat version in the Cali
Split tailgate
Back OFS Window being able to be opened allowing some air in during the night
Ambient lighting under the units (an option you have to pick if you want the outside shower on a cali, why?) NB Both shower and lighting are standard on the MP
Near silent electric side door (ideal for the middle of the night exit for the WC)

The MP didnt have it all its own way though, I liked the ribbed rail inside of the wardrobe to stop the hangers sliding and I liked the shutter to completely close the roof area off when down. However after seeing Braysaway pictures of how much he fits around the rear chairs/table storage I am not even sure thats an issue now.

The Cali may have the heritage and the "scene" but I can't help but think that VW have sat back and not developed the Cali as much as the could/should have. Oh and I didn't even mention the roof issue which has plagued so many.

 

[terry1956]

To my mind vw did not really need to work very hard did they. Just look at the price tree. Basic van £20,000. Then add a bed and pop up roof and double the price, add a bit more from IKEA a heater and water tanks and add a further £20,000 on. Limit the number of top layer vans to keep demand high. And sale lots of basic vans to conversion companies. Keeps the build rails busy without further investment. It will be interesting to see however how the mp stands the test of time over the next year.

 

[John jamieson]

Looked at new vw ocean and then at mp drove both. dealer for vw was commerical not really interested in the sale to be honest did not give discount second offer price was 60k for ocean.
Went to Merc salibury total different experience they picking me up from Southampton airport let me drive and play with the van salesman was all about what it took to make a deal very good to deal with 421 mile ex demo amg 250 5th seat aux heater awning 53k thats 7k cheaper than the vw ocean and far better to drive also the finish beats the vw hands down, I bought the van drove it 750 mile to scotland (120 gbp of fuel for the trip that is mega good) and it was so comfortable and easy to drive I think if you drive both its easy to make your mind up. It's vw camping or merc glaming. It like an airline offering you first class seat or economy seat for same price I know my choice

 

[WILLH]

Looked at new vw ocean and then at mp drove both. dealer for vw was commerical not really interested in the sale to be honest did not give discount second offer price was 60k for ocean.
Went to Merc salibury total different experience they picking me up from Southampton airport let me drive and play with the van salesman was all about what it took to make a deal very good to deal with 421 mile ex demo amg 250 5th seat aux heater awning 53k thats 7k cheaper than the vw ocean and far better to drive also the finish beats the vw hands down, I bought the van drove it 750 mile to scotland (120 gbp of fuel for the trip that is mega good) and it was so comfortable and easy to drive I think if you drive both its easy to make your mind up. It's vw camping or merc glaming. It like an airline offering you first class seat or economy seat for same price I know my choice

That is pretty much my experience except the local VW van dealer were very good and the Merc dealer I bought my MP from did a great deal but fell short on customer service.

 

[Kevin Day]

I have a 3 year old Cali Beach and looking to trade in for a 'newer' model and have been really disappointed with VW in both a PX value (£3K lower than webuyanycar) which doesnt take in account of any extras, and the price they were offering on a new one. The difference was massive.

Met with Mercedes today for a test drive, negotiated a fair price and think we will sign tomorrow.

My main reasons are the thousands of pounds of options you have to put on a Cali that come as standard on the Merc. There is basically nothing to be added apart from a heater (which we haven't) and paint.

 

[Koops]

I’m looking seriously at deciding between MP and California Ocean for my next vehicle, which would be used for daily commute on mixed roads and weekends to the coast, often with a lively spaniel on board! I realise that this vehicle choice is a common dilemma. I’m leaning towards MP but have a few concerns compared to Cali:
1) Lot of electrical equipment to go wrong (eg door, rear seats);
2) Corrosion (apparently was only an issue for African built C class and Vitos bit I still hear of some problems);
3) Marking of the light colour finish at lower half of dashboard, also for the lighter colour seats option (which Zi prefer look of)...has anyone got real experience of dirty feet/dogs marking the surfaces and ease of cleaning?
4) Rear wheel drive: poor traction/control on slippery surfaces.
Can anyone comment on these concerns from experience?

Also interested in the comparative driving experience (noise, vibration, seat comfort).

 

[anyideas]

Koops I can't comment on the electrical concerns but I think I am right in saying the corrosion issues were down to MB changing to water based paints which seems to have been rectified.
I'm a sucker for contrasting exterior/interior and always tend to go for a dark exterior with light interior, you get the odd mark here and there but nothing major IMO.
Rear Wheel drive again no real issues in driving RWD cars but I am yet to experience a MP in a wet field somewhere so perhaps I'll leave that for another time.

 

[Koops]

Well, I test drove a Cali last week which followed a test drive on a Marco Polo. Decide I preferred the Cali Ocean and have paid a deposit on a new one, delivery next month. My impressions/observations are:
MP has a very smart interior, is very convenient to use with all the electrically motorised operation, like the opening rear window, like the wires that maintain shape of the pop-top bellows, like the driving aids, like the kitchen unit arrangement; I was not so keen on the rear shape (too van like), the greater length (only 250mm but enough to make supermarket parking less easy etc), the rather dull and limited range of colours, the rather too smart interior (yes, I know it’s a Merc but I want a do-it-all camper for taking to the beach with my kitesurf kit and a dog inside!), the higher price (yes, I did compare the Vw options but excluded those not appealing to me like powered side door - something else to go wrong), servicing cost, the sloooow rear seat operation, the rather rough/noisy engine under moderate to hard acceleration, the limited space to move between the front seats to go aft (the cup holder/control box unit intrudes), the fiddly windscreen curtain installation;
For the Cali I liked:
The light coloured and practical interior, the smooth moulded based of the rotating front seats (MP seat base has sharp metal corners exposed), the smoothness of the engine (DSG) and the better visibility/easier handling, accessibility of the control panel, 230V inverter as standard, oil powered night heater as standard, Mojave Beige colour!, 7% discount and first 2 services included, only 5.8% APR, excellent residuals, proximity of VW commercial centres for servicing.
I can certainly understand why the MP will appeal to many people, and it was a close decision for me, but I believe that the Ocean is the best choice for me at this time.
Thanks to all who responded to my queries about the MP, and best wishes to the MP owners. VW does need the competition in this market, and I’m sure that Mercedes will tweak the MP to make it even more appealing

 

[Katie]

I’m sure you’ll love your Cali and thanks for all your useful input to this forum.
Now the agony of the wait!

 

[Colin Hollywood]

I have a MP on order, in silver, but I must agree with Koops observations regarding the limited and dull colour choice. During my research into the MP, looking at European websites as well as the UK one, I see customers on the continent are offered a (slightly) more extensive range, including one I think was called Flint grey (MB Cyprus if I remember correctly) - a nice blue grey colour, rather than the muddy grey colour Iridium. This would have been my choice, but MB stated this was not available in the UK, even to special order. I am sure a couple of brighter, funkier colour choices would do wonders for MP sales and they are missing a trick here. The Marco Polo is supposed to be a vehicle you go and have fun in, not a sombre limousine!

 

[Roy C]

I think the Cali’s colours, especially the two tone, are better and I think it is generally the better looking van of the two but ..... I think it is like choosing which of the ugly sisters is prettier. I recently sold my Lotus Evora and that was amazing for people just staring open-mouthed at it so I really can’t get excited about the outisde of either. What I am excited about is the view from the van when I’m camped up in some idyllic spot and either van will do that.

 

[Israel]

Well, I test drove a Cali last week which followed a test drive on a Marco Polo. Decide I preferred the Cali Ocean and have paid a deposit on a new one, delivery next month. My impressions/observations are:
MP has a very smart interior, is very convenient to use with all the electrically motorised operation, like the opening rear window, like the wires that maintain shape of the pop-top bellows, like the driving aids, like the kitchen unit arrangement; I was not so keen on the rear shape (too van like), the greater length (only 250mm but enough to make supermarket parking less easy etc), the rather dull and limited range of colours, the rather too smart interior (yes, I know it’s a Merc but I want a do-it-all camper for taking to the beach with my kitesurf kit and a dog inside!), the higher price (yes, I did compare the Vw options but excluded those not appealing to me like powered side door - something else to go wrong), servicing cost, the sloooow rear seat operation, the rather rough/noisy engine under moderate to hard acceleration, the limited space to move between the front seats to go aft (the cup holder/control box unit intrudes), the fiddly windscreen curtain installation;
For the Cali I liked:
The light coloured and practical interior, the smooth moulded based of the rotating front seats (MP seat base has sharp metal corners exposed), the smoothness of the engine (DSG) and the better visibility/easier handling, accessibility of the control panel, 230V inverter as standard, oil powered night heater as standard, Mojave Beige colour!, 7% discount and first 2 services included, only 5.8% APR, excellent residuals, proximity of VW commercial centres for servicing.
I can certainly understand why the MP will appeal to many people, and it was a close decision for me, but I believe that the Ocean is the best choice for me at this time.
Thanks to all who responded to my queries about the MP, and best wishes to the MP owners. VW does need the competition in this market, and I’m sure that Mercedes will tweak the MP to make it even more appealing

You can't go wrong with either of them... I went through the same process but, at the end, it was MP for us. But I must say it was a really tight battle

Skickat från min SM-A320FL via Tapatalk

 

[BabaJen]

I think the Cali’s colours, especially the two tone, are better and I think it is generally the better looking van of the two but ..... I think it is like choosing which of the ugly sisters is prettier. I recently sold my Lotus Evora and that was amazing for people just staring open-mouthed at it so I really can’t get excited about the outisde of either. What I am excited about is the view from the van when I’m camped up in some idyllic spot and either van will do that.

I picked up a two tone by default, the only 204DSG 4WD around at the time. Come to love it, especially when towing my sister's caravan

 

[Colin Hollywood]

It looks great in two-tone!

 

[Roy C]

Having the caravan the exact same colours as the Cali would look very smart. Have you considered that?

However, if we are showing pictures of non MPs here is my dearly departed Lotus.....

The boot was about the same size as the sink in the MP!

 

[BabaJen]

Having the caravan the exact same colours as the Cali would look very smart. Have you considered that?

However, if we are showing pictures of non MPs here is my dearly departed Lotus.....View attachment 96

The boot was about the same size as the sink in the MP!

We are changing the caravan in two weeks time to an all white one. I'm thinking of having the bottom half wrapped to match

Love the lotus.

 

[Martin]

I’m looking seriously at deciding between MP and California Ocean for my next vehicle, which would be used for daily commute on mixed roads and weekends to the coast, often with a lively spaniel on board! I realise that this vehicle choice is a common dilemma. I’m leaning towards MP but have a few concerns compared to Cali:
1) Lot of electrical equipment to go wrong (eg door, rear seats);
2) Corrosion (apparently was only an issue for African built C class and Vitos bit I still hear of some problems);
3) Marking of the light colour finish at lower half of dashboard, also for the lighter colour seats option (which Zi prefer look of)...has anyone got real experience of dirty feet/dogs marking the surfaces and ease of cleaning?
4) Rear wheel drive: poor traction/control on slippery surfaces.
Can anyone comment on these concerns from experience?

Also interested in the comparative driving experience (noise, vibration, seat comfort).

Sorry for the late reply as I don't check in often, but I can say something about 3 and 4.

I've been driving my MP for the last 10 months (daily driver + long trips up to the Scottish mountains etc i.e. mud etc), nearly always with my spaniel on board.... so can comment a bit on keeping things clean. The floor in the kitchen area is really easy to clean. It is super-smooth tough lino and takes 30 seconds with a damp rag to make it spotless. However it is also too smooth for the mutt to get a grip on, so he either ends up in the front passenger well (if its just me in the van) or in the well where the sliding door is. I tried some nonslip matting but he seemed to prefer the door well. As a consequence, the 'carpeted' inside wall of the sliding door gets covered in dog hairs. But that's a minor thing. The remaining surfaces are easy to wipe down.

Over here the leather seats were not standard, so we decided to have a complete set of good quality synthetic leather seat covers made by http://www.tapizadosaguirrezabal.com/index.php/fundas, a pair of brothers who specialise in VW and MP vans, and do everything by hand. They're really excellent and well-fitting and again really easy to wipe down. They happen to be in the city near where we live (Vitoria, also the place where the MP is made -- hence the old name Vito -- before being sent to Westfalia), but 95% of their orders come from outside and I guess they handle orders outside Spain in case anyone is interested. Highly recommended.

The other issue is rear wheel drive. I did get stuck once on a very muddy field in Derbyshire last summer (fortunately at a steam fair, so no lack of volunteers to pull me out). And I've also had a near-stuck experience on another wet camping field. And this winter that has been very snowy over here (16 occasions) I've noticed the lack of traction at times, but it hasn't stopped my daily commute. So I'd say that yes, this is an important issue if you are likely to find yourself in muddy fields or off-road. I'm just careful where I park in such situations. On the occasion I got stuck it was a stewarding situation where I had little choice in the matter of parking.

Other than that, I couldn't be happier with the MP after around 15000km. The consumption is incredibly low for a vehicle of this weight. My average over the period is 6.8 l per 100km, with around 6 or under on long trips. Engine noise is almost non-existent. All in all the automatic is a real pleasure to drive and camp in. The extra 30cm or so inside compared to the Cali is quite noticeable, and the fact that the height is just under 2m can help in many parking situations (e.g. the pick-up zones at many airports have a 2m limit). It feels more car-like than van-like and I think this and the tinted windows also means one can park up overnight practically anywhere without the roof up without attracting any attention...

Good luck with your decision

Martin